Prather blanks & Newbie builders

qbilder · **Joined:** Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:34 am **Posts:** 477

So there's a thread over in the shit hole about Prather blanks, where a newb is asking why it's bad to use them. I see lots guys responding to him with a "go ahead, screw what anybody thinks" answer but i'm doubtful that any of the guys answering would ever admit to personally using Prather blanks. I tried responding a couple of times but it's pointless. Might as well be telling a guy to go jump off a cliff.

So my question to everybody is, will it hurt a cuemaker's street credit by using Prather blanks? I say yes. I think enough buyers look down on it that once they find out a guy is doing it, the only business he'll get from there on will be from bargain hunters & folks who don't know any better or care because the cues are so cheap. Don't get me wrong, Prathers are good folks & supply a lot of nice materials & such to cuemakers. But their pre-made forearms & inlayed components carry a bad stigma. In my experience, people like buying cues the cuemaker BUILT in entirety, with the exception of full splice. Am I out of line with this notion?

BHQ · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:31 pm

qbilder wrote:

So there's a thread over in the shit hole about Prather blanks, where a newb is asking why it's bad to use them. I see lots guys responding to him with a "go ahead, screw what anybody thinks" answer but i'm doubtful that any of the guys answering would ever admit to personally using Prather blanks. I tried responding a couple of times but it's pointless. Might as well be telling a guy to go jump off a cliff.

So my question to everybody is, will it hurt a cuemaker's street credit by using Prather blanks? I say yes. I think enough buyers look down on it that once they find out a guy is doing it, the only business he'll get from there on will be from bargain hunters & folks who don't know any better or care because the cues are so cheap. Don't get me wrong, Prathers are good folks & supply a lot of nice materials & such to cuemakers. But their pre-made forearms & inlayed components carry a bad stigma. In my experience, people like buying cues the cuemaker BUILT in entirety, with the exception of full splice. Am I out of line with this notion?

im with you
if i cant make it myself, i aint using it
except for the same stuff we all know about already, bumpers, etc.
you think the guys saying that, are builders using prather, davis, schmelke blanks ??????????????

qbilder · **Joined:** Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:34 am **Posts:** 477

Heck I use Davis blanks & Schmelke sneaky blanks. Nobody seems to mind. I think most folks understand that full splice sneaky blanks are pointless to make yourself only to sell at sneaky prices. Who in their right mind would set up a full splice jig just to make $300 cues? And Davis blanks are a piece of history that appeals to a lot of folks. But by golly you let me use a Prather pointed forearm & i'm done. I don't know anybody who is ok with cuemakers using pre-made parts, especially if they pretend they don't. As I stated in the other thread, it's a false representation of your skill and if not telling the buyer, it's borderline fraud. I was just wondering what others thought. Last thing i'd do to a newb is tell him go start using Prather blanks ...... unless I wanted him to fail.

JoeyInCali · **Joined:** Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:40 pm **Posts:** 882

If one wants his own unique look and hit, it'd be really hard to accomplish that with pre-made short-splices.

BHQ · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:16 pm

qbilder wrote:

Heck I use Davis blanks & Schmelke sneaky blanks. Nobody seems to mind. I think most folks understand that full splice sneaky blanks are pointless to make yourself only to sell at sneaky prices. Who in their right mind would set up a full splice jig just to make $300 cues? And Davis blanks are a piece of history that appeals to a lot of folks. But by golly you let me use a Prather pointed forearm & i'm done. I don't know anybody who is ok with cuemakers using pre-made parts, especially if they pretend they don't. As I stated in the other thread, it's a false representation of your skill and if not telling the buyer, it's borderline fraud. I was just wondering what others thought. Last thing i'd do to a newb is tell him go start using Prather blanks ...... unless I wanted him to fail.

how come you never call your ol buddy in ohio anymore ? :lol:

qbilder · **Joined:** Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:34 am **Posts:** 477

BHQ wrote:

how come you never call your ol buddy in ohio anymore ? :lol:

The number you gave always directs me to the unemployment office. :lol:

BHQ · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:40 pm

qbilder wrote:

BHQ wrote:

how come you never call your ol buddy in ohio anymore ? :lol:

The number you gave always directs me to the unemployment office. :lol:

that is right down the street for most of us :lol:

Cornerman · **Joined:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:49 pm **Posts:** 431

JoeyInCali wrote:

If one wants his own unique look and hit, it'd be really hard to accomplish that with pre-made short-splices.

It's a rarity, but there are cuemakers out there that know more about cuemaking than most, make a very consistent and very well hitting cue, but order Prather blanks just because it either makes economic or efficient sense (time, waste, no room in their shop, whatever). It's not for everyone, but it works for some. I'm absolutely fine with that.

I just ask for full-disclosure. For the vast vast vast vast vast vast majority of players who play pool and want a cue, it doesn't matter one iota from a playing standpoint who made the blank as long as the structure was sound (Prather is very sound). But, I want full disclosure. And I'm not talking about "don't ask don't tell." If you're doing it, then tell your customer.

If every cuemaker I have a cue from told me tomorrow that they didn't make their blanks, I would be surprised, but it wouldn't change a thing. My cues that I own look good and play well. That's all I care about. But, that's just my point of view. I think I represent most people. Only the small internet community and the small community that consider collecting cues give a rat's ass.

Fred

cubswin · **Joined:** Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:30 pm **Posts:** 348

I think it depends. If I'm paying 1k+ for a cue, then I expect it to be made by the cuemaker. On the other hand, if I know someone is new and supplying veeners and points I make the assumption they brought a blank from someone. I don't mind that people use blanks as long as they aren't claiming they made everything, and selling cues at prices that would reflect a true one of a kind cue.

Sneaky's I always assume are a blank.

My main thought is if someone is buying blanks to learn how to build them then who cares. If someone is buying blanks and selling finished pointed cues for 3-5 hundred then who cares. If that same person is claiming they made the whole cue, taking accolades for their point work, then its a bit dishonest in my opinion.

cuecaps · **Joined:** Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:17 pm **Posts:** 296

qbilder wrote:

So my question to everybody is,
will it hurt a cuemaker's street credit by using Prather blanks?

To me, the title "Cuemaker" says a lot...
People expect a lot. And they are rightly to do so..
It is mastering that craft that is earned that title...

Some get in a little trouble along the way to mastering cues...
Hence, broken dreams... (Usually by the cue buyer... :lol:

)

Don't mind me..
I'm harmless..
I only shoot myself in the foot...
Alton

JimBo · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:18 pm

qbilder wrote:

So there's a thread over in the shit hole about Prather blanks, where a newb is asking why it's bad to use them. I see lots guys responding to him with a "go ahead, screw what anybody thinks" answer but i'm doubtful that any of the guys answering would ever admit to personally using Prather blanks. I tried responding a couple of times but it's pointless. Might as well be telling a guy to go jump off a cliff.

So my question to everybody is, will it hurt a cuemaker's street credit by using Prather blanks? I say yes. I think enough buyers look down on it that once they find out a guy is doing it, the only business he'll get from there on will be from bargain hunters & folks who don't know any better or care because the cues are so cheap. Don't get me wrong, Prathers are good folks & supply a lot of nice materials & such to cuemakers. But their pre-made forearms & inlayed components carry a bad stigma. In my experience, people like buying cues the cuemaker BUILT in entirety, with the exception of full splice. Am I out of line with this notion?

I agree that there is a stigma, but I question if it's deserved. I mean first of all many guys who would be considered top guys now have used them when they started out, and I believe as they learned more and their skill set improved they changed over to their own blanks. Yet many of these guys still don't know how to do a spliced point and many folks out there have no idea. Please keep in mind I am talking spliced point, not full splice. I also think there is the Bushka defense, I mean if the godfather of the craft did it, then how can it be so bad??? Speaking for myself I know that I have cues that I knew were made with Prather blanks and I do like the cues, although I would prefer the maker do their own work. I also think that what Lisa has done is a pretty cool idea buying the blanks and then having someone convert them.

I believe part of why I think it's ok is 3 fold, first of all I have a great respect for the work that the Prathers do, they have the perfect set up to make these blanks and have been doing it for so long that the blanks they make are top quality.

Second you have the history aspect, GB used them as well as many of the early guys doing titlist convertions and using old house cues for a start. I don't think there are many guys out there who have been building cues for any legnth of time who have not built a cue with someone elses blank.

And third and maybe most impostant in this day and age where everyone can buy a lathe and call them self a cuemaker I think it's a better way for them to start until they have the knowledge to do it on their own. I mean just think about guys like Eddie Wheat, would you want him to attempt to make a 4 point, 4 veneer front, or would you rather have a Prather blank from him?? No need to answer, I know the answer to anyone wanting an Eddie Wheat cue, but the point is this is a solid option for new guys starting out or guys wh just want to toy around with building a cue or 2.

Jim <----Likes a guy who can do his own work

BHQ · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:38 pm

JimBo wrote:

qbilder wrote:

So there's a thread over in the shit hole about Prather blanks, where a newb is asking why it's bad to use them. I see lots guys responding to him with a "go ahead, screw what anybody thinks" answer but i'm doubtful that any of the guys answering would ever admit to personally using Prather blanks. I tried responding a couple of times but it's pointless. Might as well be telling a guy to go jump off a cliff.

So my question to everybody is, will it hurt a cuemaker's street credit by using Prather blanks? I say yes. I think enough buyers look down on it that once they find out a guy is doing it, the only business he'll get from there on will be from bargain hunters & folks who don't know any better or care because the cues are so cheap. Don't get me wrong, Prathers are good folks & supply a lot of nice materials & such to cuemakers. But their pre-made forearms & inlayed components carry a bad stigma. In my experience, people like buying cues the cuemaker BUILT in entirety, with the exception of full splice. Am I out of line with this notion?

I agree that there is a stigma, but I question if it's deserved. I mean first of all many guys who would be considered top guys now have used them when they started out, and I believe as they learned more and their skill set improved they changed over to their own blanks. Yet many of these guys still don't know how to do a spliced point and many folks out there have no idea. Please keep in mind I am talking spliced point, not full splice. I also think there is the Bushka defense, I mean if the godfather of the craft did it, then how can it be so bad??? Speaking for myself I know that I have cues that I knew were made with Prather blanks and I do like the cues, although I would prefer the maker do their own work. I also think that what Lisa has done is a pretty cool idea buying the blanks and then having someone convert them.

I believe part of why I think it's ok is 3 fold, first of all I have a great respect for the work that the Prathers do, they have the perfect set up to make these blanks and have been doing it for so long that the blanks they make are top quality.

Second you have the history aspect, GB used them as well as many of the early guys doing titlist convertions and using old house cues for a start. I don't think there are many guys out there who have been building cues for any legnth of time who have not built a cue with someone elses blank.

And third and maybe most impostant in this day and age where everyone can buy a lathe and call them self a cuemaker I think it's a better way for them to start until they have the knowledge to do it on their own. I mean just think about guys like Eddie Wheat, would you want him to attempt to make a 4 point, 4 veneer front, or would you rather have a Prather blank from him?? No need to answer, I know the answer to anyone wanting an Eddie Wheat cue, but the point is this is a solid option for new guys starting out or guys wh just want to toy around with building a cue or 2.

Jim <----Likes a guy who can do his own work

i'd be willing to bet we would probably be very surprised at just who prathers customers are
that's what i hear thru the grapevine anyways
i know a couple that i had no idea they didnt make thier own (dont ask)
as for me,
i've turned down several that wanted me to use someone's elses fronts or blanks
that's just me,
and i'm stickin to it
most of you all know i dont do points anyways,
and there's reasons for that, but that's another story
recently i had a guy from another country ask me to make him a couple butterfly fronts for his favorite cuemaker to use
i declined
he can learn like i did and then sit back and say to hiself,
"gee, i made that" and be proud of it

qbilder · **Joined:** Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:34 am **Posts:** 477

Interesting thoughts. Not unlike my own feelings. But now who's buying cues that they know are made with Prather blanks & paying a fair price for them? Who's showing them off in shows? And who's the builders who are gonna admit to using them? The answers so far are not unlike the answers in the other thread, but I don't exactly see the evidence. Who is the respected & known builder using Prather blanks? Will the real Prather user please stand up?

I like Jim's answer the best about guys who are only doing onesy twosy cues for fun. And I can totally buy off on guys using the blanks as a learning curve. But what i'm seeing posted in forums isn't what i'm seeing in reality. A four point 4 veneer blank from Prather costs what, $150? Maybe more for nice wood? Once you add all other materials you are at what, $200+ on costs? Now figure in time. The cue's gotta sell for over $500, and most folks I know paying more than that for cues want the cuemaker involved in it all. Like I say, I don't see it adding up. Either lots of guys are using Prather blanks & lying about it, or there are a whole lotta guys selling Prather blank cues openly & people like it. I don't see that going on for sure.

qbilder · **Joined:** Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:34 am **Posts:** 477

BHQ wrote:

he can learn like i did and then sit back and say to hiself,
"gee, i made that" and be proud of it

Well, that's my feelings. I guess that is a quality that's apparently lacking in our industry.

BHQ · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:02 pm

qbilder wrote:

Interesting thoughts. Not unlike my own feelings. But now who's buying cues that they know are made with Prather blanks & paying a fair price for them? Who's showing them off in shows? And who's the builders who are gonna admit to using them? The answers so far are not unlike the answers in the other thread, but I don't exactly see the evidence. Who is the respected & known builder using Prather blanks? Will the real Prather user please stand up?

I like Jim's answer the best about guys who are only doing onesy twosy cues for fun. And I can totally buy off on guys using the blanks as a learning curve. But what i'm seeing posted in forums isn't what i'm seeing in reality. A four point 4 veneer blank from Prather costs what, $150? Maybe more for nice wood? Once you add all other materials you are at what, $200+ on costs? Now figure in time. The cue's gotta sell for over $500, and most folks I know paying more than that for cues want the cuemaker involved in it all. Like I say, I don't see it adding up. Either lots of guys are using Prather blanks & lying about it, or there are a whole lotta guys selling Prather blank cues openly & people like it. I don't see that going on for sure.

it's a tuff call for sure
another sticky point, is it "unethical" of a cuemaker to use prathers and not admit it,
or is it noone's business but his what he uses?
i should be out there working now, im so far behind,
but i'm fkn wiped out
a ruff day
when i was jacking you around eric about calling,
i did in fact get a phone call right then
one of those bad news calls
i hate those

Back to work

Prather blanks & Newbie builders

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