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 Post subject: Big Mottey
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:45 am 
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Finally got around to emailing Paul, to confirm the wood I was unsure of.
He got back to me same day. Said either stained Maple or Holly. Im going with the stained Maple.

Points are recut. Holly -- Ebony -- stained Maple -- and short Ivory points.
4 single points and handle are Amboyna burl.

All other white is Ivory.

Got a better camera, but didn't wait for better lighting.
Pics of each stained maple points. Love the way the curl changed the colors.

Image

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Last edited by 06Busa on Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 20 Point Mottey
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:55 pm 
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Very cool cue. I love Motteys.


The pics look great as well.

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 Post subject: Re: 20 Point Mottey
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:42 pm 
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CMD wrote:
Very cool cue. I love Motteys.


The pics look great as well.

Ditto

Scott

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 Post subject: Re: 20 Point Mottey
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Very nice looking cue indeed! It has a lot of stuff I love, amboyna, ebony, and ivory; what's not to love?! I don't think I could ever call my bridged recut JMW a 16-pointer though.

<--- Doesn't think recuts should be counted as individual points.

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 Post subject: Re: 20 Point Mottey
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:22 pm 
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Well what would you call it?
If its recut for a new spliced point shouldnt it count as a seperate point?

I really dont know. Just seen a SW one time that looked to me like a simple 6 point. It was refered to as 9. So I just figured three had recut and recuts must count.

Thanks for comments. Still not a DSLR, but yes the new camera is way better then what I had.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 Point Mottey
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:18 am 
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I would call this an 8 pointer with three recuts on the main points.

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 Post subject: Re: 20 Point Mottey
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:37 pm 
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First off, I want to say I'm a fan of much of Paul Mottey's work.

There are basically three ways to accomplish the look of a veneered V-point cue; mitered veneers, lap-joined veneers, and re-cuts. In the finished cue they all have virtually the identical appearance to the lay eye, and even to many more experienced viewers.

Of the three methods, mitered veneers are the most difficult to make [well], lapped joined are second, and re-cuts are the EASIEST - by far. So it has never made much sense to me that re-cut points are often described as having more points than an identical-looking veneered-point cue. I suspect the concept of claiming more points than are visually evident may be an attempt to elevate the status of the cue in some way, as if re-cut points were somehow more valuable than veneered points. Purely from an effort and workmanship standpoint, they're not.

This is a very nice Mottey - one I would love for my own collection - and I think you're actually doing it a disservice calling it a "20 point". Just call it an "8-point re-cut Mottey" and let people admire it for what it is - which is a REALLY nice cue.

TW


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 Post subject: Re: Big Mottey
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:31 pm 
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Well to be honest. I dont know if they are recut, mitered or the lap-joined which I know nothing about.
I just got it from original owner unplayed.
So "Big Mottey" it is. You may not consider it big either. But it's big to me, most coin I've ever put into one cue.


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 Post subject: Big Mottey
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:55 pm 
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Re-cut for sure. I also agree with not calling each cut a separate point.

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 Post subject: Big Mottey
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:57 pm 
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BTW I love this cue.

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 Post subject: Re: 20 Point Mottey
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:05 am 
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ThomasWayne wrote:
Of the three methods, mitered veneers are the most difficult to make [well], lapped joined are second, and re-cuts are the EASIEST - by far. So it has never made much sense to me that re-cut points are often described as having more points than an identical-looking veneered-point cue. I suspect the concept of claiming more points than are visually evident may be an attempt to elevate the status of the cue in some way, as if re-cut points were somehow more valuable than veneered points. Purely from an effort and workmanship standpoint, they're not.

If this is true, and I totally believe you, why do cue makers tend to charge more for recuts than veneers?

I'm not a cue maker or a collector. I just own a few cues and I'm curious.

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 Post subject: Re: 20 Point Mottey
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:09 pm 
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Rich R. wrote:
ThomasWayne wrote:
Of the three methods, mitered veneers are the most difficult to make [well], lapped joined are second, and re-cuts are the EASIEST - by far. So it has never made much sense to me that re-cut points are often described as having more points than an identical-looking veneered-point cue. I suspect the concept of claiming more points than are visually evident may be an attempt to elevate the status of the cue in some way, as if re-cut points were somehow more valuable than veneered points. Purely from an effort and workmanship standpoint, they're not.

If this is true, and I totally believe you, why do cue makers tend to charge more for recuts than veneers?

I'm not a cue maker or a collector. I just own a few cues and I'm curious.


I suspect the common thinking is that it uses a lot more material so the price should be higher. Obviously, if you glue in a complete point block, but then cut most of it away to accommodate the next point block, which then gets cut mostly away itself... you're using more material. Hence the price should be higher

However, rarely is that extra material extremely valuable - especially compared to the cost of the cuemaker's time. In the case of very expensive wood, or even Ivory, most smart cuemakers have figured out how to preserve the center mass being cut away and use it for another [smaller] point. Over the years Black Boar has done a particularly fine job of this, often using wood with prominent grain and taking pains to ensure that the grain lines of each subsequent layer lined up with those of the previous one.

I've built V points using all three methods - plus a fourth I invented that is proprietary to me. Points with a one or two veneers I will use a lap joint. Points with three or more veneers I will use a mitered joint. Interestingly, I would generally save the re-cut method for points that are fine without the vibrant color range of dyed veneers and can be made using wood that is reasonably plentiful - OR for my "Pomone" points.

For Ivory points I prefer flat inlays, not because of the material expense but because Ivory V points often become translucent as they near the very end of a needle-sharp V point - which is not a look I care for. Plus, I usually prefer using additional design elements at the tip or the points.

TW


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 Post subject: Re: Big Mottey
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:04 pm 
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Thank you for the information.

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 Post subject: Re: 20 Point Mottey
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:47 pm 
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I suspect the common thinking is that it uses a lot more material so the price should be higher. Obviously, if you glue in a complete point block, but then cut most of it away to accommodate the next point block, which then gets cut mostly away itself... you're using more material. Hence the price should be higher

However, rarely is that extra material extremely valuable - especially compared to the cost of the cuemaker's time. In the case of very expensive wood, or even Ivory, most smart cuemakers have figured out how to preserve the center mass being cut away and use it for another [smaller] point. Over the years Black Boar has done a particularly fine job of this, often using wood with prominent grain and taking pains to ensure that the grain lines of each subsequent layer lined up with those of the previous one.

I've built V points using all three methods - plus a fourth I invented that is proprietary to me. Points with a one or two veneers I will use a lap joint. Points with three or more veneers I will use a mitered joint. Interestingly, I would generally save the re-cut method for points that are fine without the vibrant color range of dyed veneers and can be made using wood that is reasonably plentiful - OR for my "Pomone" points.

For Ivory points I prefer flat inlays, not because of the material expense but because Ivory V points often become translucent as they near the very end of a needle-sharp V point - which is not a look I care for. Plus, I usually prefer using additional design elements at the tip or the points.

TW
[/quote]

I thought the cue maker's time was supposed to be "free" ???
:cry: :cry:

I also disagree with counting each recut as an additional point.

I could order an eight (8) point cue from a cue maker, and end up with a single point with eight (8) recuts. 8)


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