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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:48 pm 
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All this talk of stabilizing your own wood in the shop got me thinking.....I have an old bag (probably 8 yrs old) of B-72 Paraloid that is almost full that I won't ever use... since I send my burl to the pros..

If you've been around the "self stabilizing" scene in the last 10-15 yrs then you know what this is. (One of the many DIY homebrews) and I'm sure the directions for mixing are out on the net. If it was blue you would be thinking Heisenberg made it..... :lol:


FREE..... but I need $6 bucks for the mailman. First "I'll take it", gets it.

Stay tuned.... more free DIY stabilization materials coming up..... Think I have some unused and unmixed Resinol90C in the shop fridge with catalyst. :roll: .


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:13 pm 
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Gone.......


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:00 am 
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meridianblades wrote:
Gone.......



I'll take it.

Ok I see you said it was already gone so I jest, but I do follow AZ often and I have an issue with your giveaway over there. You asked people to show examples of burls and one guy around page 4 shows a Purpleheart cue and says PH Burl, well first of all it's a quilted piece and certainly not a burl, and second I have heard rumors and legends of purpleheart burl, but I can tell you none exists. So please whatever you do, don't make the guy who lied a winner and if at all possible, how bout we educate him on that.

Jim<---has searched for purpleheart burl for 20 years

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:23 am 
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JimBo wrote:

I'll take it.

[...] I have heard rumors and legends of purpleheart burl, but I can tell you none exists. [...]
Jim<---has searched for purpleheart burl for 20 years


Just because you haven't seen it does not mean it doesn't exist.

What we call "Purpleheart" is just a single iteration of whole group of lumbers; the stuff you're familiar with is also called "Amendoim" or sometimes "Amaranth". Other types of Purpelheart include "Copaifera Martii", "Demerara", et alia - and the are mostly related to the natural order "Luguminosae". Trees of different varieties of Purpleheart range from relatively small to ~ 40 - 50 ft tall to as large as 150 ft tall & 40+ ft in diameter. And this is just scratching the surface of all the different species collectively known as "Purpleheart". The Purpleheart lumber we cuemakers use typically comes from the larger, more straight-grained species - but that is just one of many, many so-named varieties.

So the chance of you being able to authoritatively proclaim that no Purpleheart "Burl" exists is ZERO - you've almost certainly seen only one variety in your entire life. In reality, the likelihood of some form of Purpleheart burl existing somewhere is quite high, even if none on this forum will ever see it. Granted, it may not be attractive (or even purple in color), but almost certainly somewhere in the world there is a tree of the species collectively known as "Purpleheart" that has developed a burl of some sort. Only time will tell if we'll ever see it in a cue.

TW


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:50 am 
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JimBo wrote:
meridianblades wrote:
Gone.......



I'll take it.

Ok I see you said it was already gone so I jest, but I do follow AZ often and I have an issue with your giveaway over there. You asked people to show examples of burls and one guy around page 4 shows a Purpleheart cue and says PH Burl, well first of all it's a quilted piece and certainly not a burl, and second I have heard rumors and legends of purpleheart burl, but I can tell you none exists. So please whatever you do, don't make the guy who lied a winner and if at all possible, how bout we educate him on that.

Jim<---has searched for purpleheart burl for 20 years


Jimbo
It's kind of like the string on the sweater, you pull on it and it just keeps coming.....It never ends. There are SOOOOOO many examples of burl that isn't burl, or is named something else just in this thread alone. It's endless.... and well, pretty eye opening. I just wanted to have a little fun and give away some dyed sycamore.... BUT I certainly agree with you on what your saying....thanks for the input.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:58 am 
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ThomasWayne wrote:
JimBo wrote:

I'll take it.

[...] I have heard rumors and legends of purpleheart burl, but I can tell you none exists. [...]
Jim<---has searched for purpleheart burl for 20 years


Just because you haven't seen it does not mean it doesn't exist.

What we call "Purpleheart" is just a single iteration of whole group of lumbers; the stuff you're familiar with is also called "Amendoim" or sometimes "Amaranth". Other types of Purpelheart include "Copaifera Martii", "Demerara", et alia - and the are mostly related to the natural order "Luguminosae". Trees of different varieties of Purpleheart range from relatively small to ~ 40 - 50 ft tall to as large as 150 ft tall & 40+ ft in diameter. And this is just scratching the surface of all the different species collectively known as "Purpleheart". The Purpleheart lumber we cuemakers use typically comes from the larger, more straight-grained species - but that is just one of many, many so-named varieties.

So the chance of you being able to authoritatively proclaim that no Purpleheart "Burl" exists is ZERO - you've almost certainly seen only one variety in your entire life. In reality, the likelihood of some form of Purpleheart burl existing somewhere is quite high, even if none on this forum will ever see it. Granted, it may not be attractive (or even purple in color), but almost certainly somewhere in the world there is a tree of the species collectively known as "Purpleheart" that has developed a burl of some sort. Only time will tell if we'll ever see it in a cue.

TW


As much as purpleheart is used and as plentiful as it is, makes me think it exists as well. Have I ever gotten some in the shop, no, but then I can get my fix of burl in any species with a little dye, or double dye. I think if someone does run across some PH burl we will all be sadly disappointed....in what think it should look like. Stuff like this below works for me, if I want "purple burl".....

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:00 pm 
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meridianblades wrote:
As much as purpleheart is used and as plentiful as it is, makes me think it exists as well. Have I ever gotten some in the shop, no, but then I can get my fix of burl in any species with a little dye, or double dye. I think if someone does run across some PH burl we will all be sadly disappointed....in what think it should look like. Stuff like this below works for me, if I want "purple burl".....


I agree there should be some out there, but I've searched for a long time and found no evidence of any.
I had one Cuemaker "Friend" tell me that a person approached him about some but he wanted a lot of $$$ for it and my "friend" couldn't swing it at the time and wasn't looking to share. But he had no proof or pictures of it. The stuff you show is cool looking but not what I am looking for, and although I can't say for sure it doesn't exist I am pretty sure that I have not run across and and I can for a fact say that the cue I was talking about is NOT PH Burl. If it were out there I am sure someone would have seen some or had a picture, wouldn't have to be a cue, but I have never seen any. I am a buyer if any pops up.

Jim <---That's my story and I am sticking to it.

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Congrats,
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:33 pm 
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JimBo wrote:
meridianblades wrote:
As much as purpleheart is used and as plentiful as it is, makes me think it exists as well. Have I ever gotten some in the shop, no, but then I can get my fix of burl in any species with a little dye, or double dye. I think if someone does run across some PH burl we will all be sadly disappointed....in what think it should look like. Stuff like this below works for me, if I want "purple burl".....


I agree there should be some out there, but I've searched for a long time and found no evidence of any.
I had one Cuemaker "Friend" tell me that a person approached him about some but he wanted a lot of $$$ for it and my "friend" couldn't swing it at the time and wasn't looking to share. But he had no proof or pictures of it. The stuff you show is cool looking but not what I am looking for, and although I can't say for sure it doesn't exist I am pretty sure that I have not run across and and I can for a fact say that the cue I was talking about is NOT PH Burl. If it were out there I am sure someone would have seen some or had a picture, wouldn't have to be a cue, but I have never seen any. I am a buyer if any pops up.

Jim <---That's my story and I am sticking to it.


So Jim.....
Do you like purpleheart wood or the color purple? Purple heart is a pretty common hardwood. I have seen it being used on pallets for shipping.... Are you a purist that doesn't like "dyed or stained" woods?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:24 am 
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meridianblades wrote:
So Jim.....
Do you like purpleheart wood or the color purple? Purple heart is a pretty common hardwood. I have seen it being used on pallets for shipping.... Are you a purist that doesn't like "dyed or stained" woods?



I do happen to enjoy the color purple (whatever that means) but I am a fan of the tone and characteristics of the wood when it's in a cue. It's probably dumb to think I am able to tell the difference but I have always been able to tell if a cue was cored with maple or some laminate and have also enjoyed the way many cored with PH played. I am not a fan of cored cues, I do get the benifits of doing it, but still not a fan. I am also not a fan of dyed woods like what you posted, although it looks pretty cool. Most (not all) the cues I order are PH or at least cored with it. I just like it.

Jim <---not a fan of ebony

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Nick Serdula


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:54 am 
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JimBo wrote:
meridianblades wrote:
So Jim.....
Do you like purpleheart wood or the color purple? Purple heart is a pretty common hardwood. I have seen it being used on pallets for shipping.... Are you a purist that doesn't like "dyed or stained" woods?



I do happen to enjoy the color purple (whatever that means) but I am a fan of the tone and characteristics of the wood when it's in a cue. It's probably dumb to think I am able to tell the difference but I have always been able to tell if a cue was cored with maple or some laminate and have also enjoyed the way many cored with PH played. I am not a fan of cored cues, I do get the benifits of doing it, but still not a fan. I am also not a fan of dyed woods like what you posted, although it looks pretty cool. Most (not all) the cues I order are PH or at least cored with it. I just like it.

Jim <---not a fan of ebony


I am not a fan of ebony either.... at least not the common Gabon ebonies. Ceylon, yes. African Blackwood yes (which is actually a Rosewood). Ancient Black Bog Oak seems to be hot right now. To me it just looks like oak that's been dyed black. Grain still looks like oak.... nothing special IMO.

I think if the PH burl is found its color may not be what we expect, and the grain will be different, and (going out on a limb here - it may play differently). I stabilize almost every burl in the shop. The reason I asked about the color is that with dye you can kind of control your outcomes to a certain extent. Provided you have the necessary equipment to get the PSI you need, or send it to a pro who does this for a living. In other words you could take pretty much any burl and dye it. If you like that muted lavender color ---> (my color wheel is missing at the moment) then that's what you would shoot for.

Not all dye jobs are recognizable. I have done lots of buckeye where its been done in gold dye and it just highlights what already there. So in the end I think you could experiment and come up with a color that you like....in a burl that you like. The stabilized / dyed wood is mostly likely going to be harder and denser than the PH, so you would then need to see if liked how it played.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:41 am 
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meridianblades wrote:


I think if the PH burl is found its color may not be what we expect, and the grain will be different, and (going out on a limb here - it may play differently). I stabilize almost every burl in the shop. The reason I asked about the color is that with dye you can kind of control your outcomes to a certain extent. Provided you have the necessary equipment to get the PSI you need, or send it to a pro who does this for a living. In other words you could take pretty much any burl and dye it. If you like that muted lavender color ---> (my color wheel is missing at the moment) then that's what you would shoot for.

Not all dye jobs are recognizable. I have done lots of buckeye where its been done in gold dye and it just highlights what already there. So in the end I think you could experiment and come up with a color that you like....in a burl that you like. The stabilized / dyed wood is mostly likely going to be harder and denser than the PH, so you would then need to see if liked how it played.


My guess would be you would have to core it like most burls, in which case you could core with PH to give the desired hit characteristics.

Jim <----Not a wood guy or cuemaker

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Congrats,
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:06 pm 
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meridianblades wrote:
[...]
So Jim.....
Do you like purpleheart wood or the color purple? Purple heart is a pretty common hardwood. I have seen it being used on pallets for shipping.... Are you a purist that doesn't like "dyed or stained" woods?


Well, I've often thought they should do a TV show called "The Secret Lives of Woods". For example, it's not well known that in the jungle regions where the largest and most majestic Purpleheart trees are found there are local tribal laws strictly controlling which wood species can be used for what purpose - and by whom.

The most beautiful and revered wood is reserved for use solely by tribal "royalty", and its use (in any way) by common tribesmen is forbidden - upon "pain of death". The regular tribesmen are not even allowed to touch the stuff. On the occasions when a ferocious beast - say a large lion, for example - is captured alive by the villagers the tribal chieftain traditionally demonstrates his "power" and "dominion" by beating the captive animal to death using a sacred club carved from a particularly vibrant piece of the local "royal" wood. This club can only have been carved by the chieftain himself (or by a former chieftain) and must have been blessed by the tribal medicine man.

The chieftain literally beats the shit out of the animal with the sacred club, which is carved from the most sacred of woods - that sacred wood being, of course... Pink Ivory. Then that dead animal's shit, mixed with blood and dirt, is scraped up using common slabs of Purpleheart that would otherwise be used for firewood. Those slabs, which are now considered tainted and not fit to burn in cooking fires, are shipped to the U.S. and sold to cuemakers - the hardwood salesmen undergo special training to resist laughing out loud when they make such a sale.

Fun facts to know and tell your friends.

TW


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:49 pm 
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That explains to smell of cat shit. Whenever I turn purple heart!

Larry


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:40 pm 
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ThomasWayne wrote:
meridianblades wrote:
[...]
So Jim.....
Do you like purpleheart wood or the color purple? Purple heart is a pretty common hardwood. I have seen it being used on pallets for shipping.... Are you a purist that doesn't like "dyed or stained" woods?


Well, I've often thought they should do a TV show called "The Secret Lives of Woods". For example, it's not well known that in the jungle regions where the largest and most majestic Purpleheart trees are found there are local tribal laws strictly controlling which wood species can be used for what purpose - and by whom.

The most beautiful and revered wood is reserved for use solely by tribal "royalty", and its use (in any way) by common tribesmen is forbidden - upon "pain of death". The regular tribesmen are not even allowed to touch the stuff. On the occasions when a ferocious beast - say a large lion, for example - is captured alive by the villagers the tribal chieftain traditionally demonstrates his "power" and "dominion" by beating the captive animal to death using a sacred club carved from a particularly vibrant piece of the local "royal" wood. This club can only have been carved by the chieftain himself (or by a former chieftain) and must have been blessed by the tribal medicine man.

The chieftain literally beats the shit out of the animal with the sacred club, which is carved from the most sacred of woods - that sacred wood being, of course... Pink Ivory. Then that dead animal's shit, mixed with blood and dirt, is scraped up using common slabs of Purpleheart that would otherwise be used for firewood. Those slabs, which are now considered tainted and not fit to burn in cooking fires, are shipped to the U.S. and sold to cuemakers - the hardwood salesmen undergo special training to resist laughing out loud when they make such a sale.

Fun facts to know and tell your friends.

TW


Yeah I can see where beating a "captive animal" would certainly convey his power..... We should probably call for a ban on purpleheart and pink ivory to be enacted immediately, and maybe Padauk too. All those bowls, pens, instruments, floors and cues would need to be confiscated to keep those lions from suffering any longer.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:57 pm 
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JimBo wrote:

My guess would be you would have to core it like most burls, in which case you could core with PH to give the desired hit characteristics.

Jim <----Not a wood guy or cuemaker



So if the color was right.... what kind of burl would you want? Obviously certain burls take dye much better than others. The box elder in my pic is probably one of the best burls for dye. Maple, buckeye, and others do fairly well too. One of things that stands out in the giveaway threads is pics of "burl" where all you see is flame /swirl and no eyes.... I won't argue semantics, I will just say I like to see eyes in a piece of burl. What about curl, quilt or birdseye...... as long as the color was right?


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