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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:54 pm 
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As a non-cue maker or collector, I'm allowed one stupid question per day, so here goes.

Do veneers, of any type, add anything to the cue other than cosmetics?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:14 pm 
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BHQ wrote:
great web page !
i do have a question
you went to the recut because of the eratic veneers. correct? im sure that wasnt your only reason though?
dont know if you know this, but i dont do points, pointy points :lol:

butterflies are the same principle, but i also ran into that problem with eratic veneers
licked that problem by running my veneers thru my drum sander
i wouldnt swear that they are perfect, but definitely better than they were raw

Part of the reason was inconsistent veneer, part of it was just that I like doing recuts. I still do a lot of veneered points
though. The customers are the boss...I'm just their semi permanent employee.

I tried the drum sander thing but didn't get the results I wanted. May have been operator error.

I'm meeting with a sales rep next week that wants me to try some new stuff. He does some wood working himself and claims
he can do better than what we're all used to getting. We'll see.

Brent, you're gettin to be the Butterfly Guru!! I remember some of your work from a loooong time ago.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:20 pm 
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Rich R. wrote:
As a non-cue maker or collector, I'm allowed one stupid question per day, so here goes.

Do veneers, of any type, add anything to the cue other than cosmetics?

Not a stupid question at all. Opinions seem to vary on the subject. I think they do add strength to that area of a cue.
Think in terms of plywood. One ply isn't that strong...The more plies you add the stronger the unit. Make sense?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:56 am 
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wayne wrote:
BHQ wrote:
great web page !
i do have a question
you went to the recut because of the eratic veneers. correct? im sure that wasnt your only reason though?
dont know if you know this, but i dont do points, pointy points :lol:

butterflies are the same principle, but i also ran into that problem with eratic veneers
licked that problem by running my veneers thru my drum sander
i wouldnt swear that they are perfect, but definitely better than they were raw

Part of the reason was inconsistent veneer, part of it was just that I like doing recuts. I still do a lot of veneered points
though. The customers are the boss...I'm just their semi permanent employee.

I tried the drum sander thing but didn't get the results I wanted. May have been operator error.

I'm meeting with a sales rep next week that wants me to try some new stuff. He does some wood working himself and claims
he can do better than what we're all used to getting. We'll see.

Brent, you're gettin to be the Butterfly Guru!! I remember some of your work from a loooong time ago.

me? guru? LOL im a little guppy in a pool of big fish
barenbrugge is the guru of all gurus
about the drum sander, after the first initial passes, i found that if i ran veneers strips thru the same spot on the drum, right behind each other, a bunch of times , without lowering drum, until it wasnt making hardly any contact, they were pretty damn consistant.
when i first got drum sander i was using 220 belts
they are worthless
i use 80 now
you'd think that would tear the hell out of veneers , but it dont
one day i bumped drum down too far, wasnt paying attention i suppose
so i just kept going for the helluvit to see just how thin i could get 'em without tearing them up
got 'em to .012"

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:38 am 
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SUPERSTAR wrote:
Murray Tucker wrote:
I am going to start off by showing components and techniques that I use. I encourage others to add to the content of the post.


Ok. Can't send PM's with pictures.

I was hesitant to post this drawing i just did, but after reading this and seeing that input was welcomed, i am going to go ahead and post it.

Let me make a disclaimer that i am not a cue builder.
It's just a twist on what i assume is the traditional method of doing veneers as it was explained to me by Tony, so that no join line is seen at the tip of the point where the veneers come together.

Food for thought.



Superstar,

I view this as a re-cut.

I mean you basically are re-cutting the point groove, only with this method you use a fixture to hold the material while you cut it. With the more common method, you use the cue to hold the material while you cut it. To me they are both still "Re-Cut" from a square.

Actually, Atlas sells a fixture for doing this very thing.

http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.as ... EM_ID=5979

I'm not sure how well it works, but according to them, you can re-cut down to .040" thick.

Royce

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:44 am 
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Actually, Atlas sells a fixture for doing this very thing.

http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.as ... EM_ID=5979

I'm not sure how well it works, but according to them, you can re-cut down to .040" thick.

Royce[/quote]


Hi Royce
The fixture was designed and offered by Pete Tonkin, if used properly with a D.R.O.repeatable results should be very good. Pete also offers other fixtures that I am told work well with a Milling machine. You can have all the fixtures in the world but it still comes down to the guy working it.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:17 am 
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BHQ wrote:
me? guru? LOL im a little guppy in a pool of big fish
barenbrugge is the guru of all gurus
about the drum sander, after the first initial passes, i found that if i ran veneers strips thru the same spot on the drum, right behind each other, a bunch of times , without lowering drum, until it wasnt making hardly any contact, they were pretty damn consistant.
when i first got drum sander i was using 220 belts
they are worthless
i use 80 now
you'd think that would tear the hell out of veneers , but it dont
one day i bumped drum down too far, wasnt paying attention i suppose
so i just kept going for the helluvit to see just how thin i could get 'em without tearing them up
got 'em to .012"

There's nothing written that says there can't be more than one Guru Brent.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:24 am 
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rbc wrote:
Superstar,

I view this as a re-cut.

I mean you basically are re-cutting the point groove, only with this method you use a fixture to hold the material while you cut it. With the more common method, you use the cue to hold the material while you cut it. To me they are both still "Re-Cut" from a square.

Actually, Atlas sells a fixture for doing this very thing.

http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.as ... EM_ID=5979

I'm not sure how well it works, but according to them, you can re-cut down to .040" thick.

Royce

Interesting how people in the same trade have differences in terminology...Maybe it's a geographical thing.
I see them as being hardwood veneers.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:35 am 
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Michael Webb wrote:
You can have all the fixtures in the world but it still comes down to the guy working it.
Ain't that the truth!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:09 pm 
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My goal for this thread was to just show people what a veneer was. The next couple of threads will show what to do with them.

My posts are also just going to show hightlights. I'm not going to try and teach people how to build a cue or give away any top seceret info.

Of course these threads can take on a life of their own so we will just have to see how it goes.

ScottR wrote:
Murray, would this thread be appropriate for gluing the veneers, cutting them, forming the V's, etc.? Or is that the next thread?

Scott <<== still out of town, but thinking ahead

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:15 pm 
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To me, assuming that veneers are cut from an original block of wood at some point in the process, they could ALSO be called re-cut. LOL, but admittedly, i don't know much about cues or their terminology.

All i know is Tony had all these V's of different material lying around in stacks. Ebony, Purple heart, colored woods, even Ivory.

No idea how all those stacks of V's came into existence. Just was told that they were what was used so that veneers wouldn't have a join line, as Tony showed me on a MACE cue that he was making.

Plus, they were all THIN. My only experience with re-cuts that i KNEW were re-cuts, were with Tony, and historically, his re-cuts were left rather THICK. Almost like 3 times as thick as traditional veneers, so that's probably why i have it in my head that re-cuts must be FAT or THICK, to be considered recuts.

Assuming that multiple V's can be taken out of a single block of wood somehow in layers(i could be wrong) Wouldn't this method save on materials over the long run over just re-cutting the rest of the block of wood away?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:30 pm 
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SUPERSTAR wrote:
Assuming that multiple V's can be taken out of a single block of wood somehow in layers(i could be wrong)
Wouldn't this method save on materials over the long run over just re-cutting the rest of the block of wood away?

I won't say that can't be done but I will say I wouldn't wanna try it. What might be saved in materials would be offset by the cost of lost fingers.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:56 pm 
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Rich R. wrote:
As a non-cue maker or collector, I'm allowed one stupid question per day, so here goes.

Do veneers, of any type, add anything to the cue other than cosmetics?


I think this is a valid question as I was going to ask the same thing.

I heard that there is a school of thoughts that believe veneers add strength to the forearm vs single point without veneers? Of course, I can be crazy as well ... or all of the above.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:33 am 
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Hidy Ho wrote:
Rich R. wrote:
As a non-cue maker or collector, I'm allowed one stupid question per day, so here goes.

Do veneers, of any type, add anything to the cue other than cosmetics?


I think this is a valid question as I was going to ask the same thing.

I heard that there is a school of thoughts that believe veneers add strength to the forearm vs single point without veneers? Of course, I can be crazy as well ... or all of the above.

I've heard two schools of thought.

#1 - adding the veneers strengthens the forearm, just like plywood is stronger that a single piece of wood of the same thickness

#B - cutting out the v-grooves weakens the internal structure and interupts the normal vibrational "flow" of the forearm

Joined properly and not abused, I can't see where either would fail playing pool.

Scott

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:59 pm 
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ScottR wrote:
Hidy Ho wrote:
Rich R. wrote:
As a non-cue maker or collector, I'm allowed one stupid question per day, so here goes.

Do veneers, of any type, add anything to the cue other than cosmetics?


I think this is a valid question as I was going to ask the same thing.

I heard that there is a school of thoughts that believe veneers add strength to the forearm vs single point without veneers? Of course, I can be crazy as well ... or all of the above.

I've heard two schools of thought.

#1 - adding the veneers strengthens the forearm, just like plywood is stronger that a single piece of wood of the same thickness

#B - cutting out the v-grooves weakens the internal structure and interupts the normal vibrational "flow" of the forearm

Joined properly and not abused, I can't see where either would fail playing pool.

Scott

1. Spain believed the opposing grains strenghtened the pieces.

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