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Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method
http://www.jimboarmy.com/phpbb_6/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3511
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Author:  Murray Tucker [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:43 am ]
Post subject:  Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

today I'm going to show one method for installing the veneers on points. This is called the overlap method. As the name states veneers are glued on, one at a time, and then trimmed.

In this picture you can see the green veneer being glued over the white one.

Image

After the glue dries it can be trimmed flush with the white one.

Image

Then the next veneer is glued on.

Image

Once you have all the veneers glued on the block is cut into the individual points.

Image

Then they can be glued in and turned round.

Image

Image

I'm not sure if it shows up in the picture but the seam in a overlap veneer does not go straight down the cue. It runs to the side. Some like this look but other don't think it is traditional. However there are lots of great cues out there (SouthWest for one) who use this method.

Author:  Catscradle [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

Murray does the block with veneers just get glued in the slot as is or is it trimmed to make handling it a little easier?
Steve.<-- Will soon be qualified to build cues. :shock: :roll:

Author:  Murray Tucker [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

They get trimmed in the band saw. Some just glue them in square and trim them in the band saw after the glue dries. Either way works fine.



Catscradle wrote:
Murray does the block with veneers just get glued in the slot as is or is it trimmed to make handling it a little easier?
Steve.<-- Will soon be qualified to build cues. :shock: :roll:

Author:  BarenbruggeCues [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

I would like to add..... The block of wood in the first pictures that the veneers are getting glued too is a piece large enough that once the glue is dry it is then put through a saw and quartered to make the four smaller squares with the veneers on just 2 sides. These are then glued into the forearm that has been cut out to except the individual squares which create the four points in a four pointed cue. One benefit of doing it this way is you end up with 4 grain and color matched pieces of what ever type of point wood you are using. In this case it appears to be cocobolo.
When someone talks about "book matched" point wood this one example of how it is done. There is another method to achieving the book matched look also where it done in two sets of squares and each piece is cut on a 45 degree angle before being glued into the forearm.
Hope this helps......

Author:  gadroon [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

Some time back there was some discussion on the boards about the benifits/disadvantages of the mitered veneer method versus the overlap method. I believe the photos above show that if the overlap method is done well, the final product is equal to the mitered method.

Author:  rhncue [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

gadroon wrote:
Some time back there was some discussion on the boards about the benifits/disadvantages of the mitered veneer method versus the overlap method. I believe the photos above show that if the overlap method is done well, the final product is equal to the mitered method.


To each their own and although I agree that this veneered prong looks very nice I disagree that it looks as good as a mitered veneer prong that has been made with the same attention to detail. Just my opinion of coarse.

Dick

Author:  mair23 [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

gadroon wrote:
Some time back there was some discussion on the boards about the benifits/disadvantages of the mitered veneer method versus the overlap method. I believe the photos above show that if the overlap method is done well, the final product is equal to the mitered method.



As I am one of the guys who don´t know the different types of putting veneers on a cue, it´s really hard to say
one is better then the other, but this method looks not that bad. I jumped up immediatly and at the moment I am
looking carefuly at my two Southwests. And both of them (a newer one and a JF one) have these venners, but
on both cues the lines are so hard to find. I had to use much daylight to see them - awesome workmanship :shock:

When I look at my Hercek, I can (hardly) see straight lines, which means he uses another method of glueing the veneers on
his point wood :?: I know, its a fullsplice cue, but he has to glue the veneers on it, too, or not :?:

And last but not least, a guy named Webb or something like that :mrgreen: , told me that it´s possible to make
veneers without seeing lines, and it would not be a recut. So I am waiting weeks, and weeks, and weeks, and hopefuly
we will go threw all the different methodes with positives and negatives - GIVE ME MORE :shock:

I love this threads :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Thanks to Murray and all the other cuemakers here - great work, guys. 8)

Eric"h"

Author:  mair23 [ Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

At first I want to tell Murray and all the other "Knowers" out there the breaking news........

:mrgreen: I LOVE THESE THREADS (Anatomy of a cue) :mrgreen:

As I am able to see different methodes of making veneers in my own cues now,
I thought I have to share some things with my Army friends over here.

I told you that it was really hard to find the lines in some of my cues, but today I tried to make
some SUPER MACROS with a little bit of natural light - and I think it worked out pretty well. :shock:
I know, many think that SUPER MACROS are not the best for cuemakers, because we all are able
to see the little mistakes, but in my stupid brain I think its awesome, because we can see how good
all the makers out there are, too. And you can believe me, it was not that easy to find visible lines :mrgreen:

I hope you like some of my pics, and I hope it shows the finished product of hte OVERLAPING METHOD
in my Southwest and J. Franklin, and how hard they are to see - pics are made app. 2 to 4 inch away.

@ Murray - I hope it´s o.k. that the stupid european is posting some pics in you thread :?:

Eric"h"

I hope you can see the lines a little bit, and if you want to see
the whole cues, you should be a member on this site. :lol:
There are a lot of cues to see in the "Cue Showcase" :shock:


1. SW and JF - long point (forearm)
Image

2. Another SW and JF long point pic
Image

3. Realy close - SW short point - in the light veneer the line is visible
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4. Realy close - JF short point - can you see the line in the maple veneer ?

Image

Author:  mair23 [ Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

And as I want to push Murray and all the other "Knowers" out there to the next topics...........
Here are some pics I made from other veneer methods - I don´t know which ones, but others :mrgreen:

I hope that will help to see the difference to the OVERLAPING METHOD (pics before).
At least it helped me as I took my cues out and tried to see the difference - wow :shock:

Don´t kill me Murray, but it helped me understand when I saw the difference in the end product.

Eric"h"


1. Hercek point with veneers - hard to see lines :shock:
Image

2. A little bit closer to see the straight line better :idea:
Image

3. Josswest point with great visible lines - method ??
Image

4. Gina buttsleeve point - method ??

Image

Author:  Murray Tucker [ Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

Very cool that you now can spot the difference. We will cover the straight line veneers next week.

Stay tuned..............

Author:  brooklynjay [ Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

interesting! i never looked that closely as to where the lines in the veneers on my cues are - now i'm going to pay attention.
wait.
i don't own any cues that have veneers.
:oops:

--

1) is one method better than the other?
2) is one method more labor intensive?
3) cnc and production cues - are the points put in the same way?

Author:  ScottR [ Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

brooklynjay wrote:
interesting! i never looked that closely as to where the lines in the veneers on my cues are - now i'm going to pay attention.
wait.
i don't own any cues that have veneers.
:oops:

--

1) is one method better than the other?
2) is one method more labor intensive?
3) cnc and production cues - are the points put in the same way?

joeyincali tried to explain to me once how the sharp veneers are done in flat bottom inlayed points like Stroud and Ernie do. But I still didn't get it.

Scott

Author:  Michael Webb [ Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

[quote="mair23And last but not least, a guy named Webb or something like that :mrgreen: , told me that it´s possible to make
veneers without seeing lines, and it would not be a recut. So I am waiting weeks, and weeks, and weeks, and hopefuly
we will go threw all the different methodes with positives and negatives - GIVE ME MORE :shock:
Eric"h"[/quote]


Well seeing you were in my shop, I would expect you to have a better understanding than most as far as different methods.

Author:  shoutout33 [ Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

Hmmm....worry about non-traditional vaneer splits on a Murray Tucker cue or be happy being able to on Murray Tucker's list to make a cue in the first place. :roll: Just kidding people. :mrgreen: Never really new this was a big ordeal to people. Really. If Murry sent me a cue that was a little off, I'm pretty sure I could deal with his imperfections. :P :lol: :mrgreen:

Author:  ScottR [ Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Week 5: Veneered Points- Overlap Method

shoutout33 wrote:
Hmmm....worry about non-traditional vaneer splits on a Murray Tucker cue or be happy being able to on Murray Tucker's list to make a cue in the first place. :roll: Just kidding people. :mrgreen: Never really new this was a big ordeal to people. Really. If Murry sent me a cue that was a little off, I'm pretty sure I could deal with his imperfections. :P :lol: :mrgreen:

Nobody is saying anything is "off". You're missing the point. Murray is showing different ways to build a cue.

Scott

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