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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:51 am 
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meridianblades wrote:
RogerO wrote:
Larry:
I agree with a comment that I think you made, that most people think they know what a sharp knife is, but they don't. I include myself in that group to a certain degree. The only difference is that I'm pretty sure that I don't know how to sharpen my knives the way that they deserve to be. So, with all the sharpening instructions on youtube, is there one that you can point to that you would consider to be the best for me to follow? I'm talking mostly Western kitchen knives, but I also have a Randalmade model 16 diver's knife. What angles are appropriate for these two types?

Thanks in advance.

Roger



Best thing is to drop them off and pay the $20 bucks or so to get them done right..... You can also try some of the home sharpening products. A lot of people (who hate to sharpen and want something fool proof) have tried this system here and really liked the results.....Are you going to get the same results as having them pro sharpened.... NO, but they can be used to put on a decent edge and for maintenance for standard western style kitchen blades. Follow the simple B-O-Y for how dull the knives are... Start with Blue if they're really dull, and move through orange to yellow.... https://secure.edgemaker.com/sections/p ... prod_id=18

The angles are really personal preference.... depends on usage. Lazer thin for kitchen seems to be very popular...which also can mean fragile (chips easily).... The Randall I would convex, for a strong reliable edge for hard usage.


Thanks Larry. I'm more inclined to use a series of stones like the Norton 3 in 1 or a set of diamond plates like Jerry as I can use them to sharpen other edges as well.

Thanks again,
Roger


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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:31 pm 
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Roger there are probably a few youtube vids out there on how to do a convex edge.... I have seen a few using a mousepad and sandpaper, etc. Otherwise like I said the link I posted seemed to work for those that cant seem to hold their angles and wanted something easy.

Did you guys figure out that right handed vs left handed thing.... Check out this vid. See how the high grind is on the backside of the usuba, opposite to where the food is. The knife is made to used by right handed chefs. I would need a box of band-aids to try that.... :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLZUJGyuhQM

Here is an easy to understand pic showing grind types....

Image

Flat is a straight V shape all the way to the spine
Taper is also known as the Scandinavian grind which is flat ground up to a point
Hollow is what you would see on a straight razor
Convex is the strongest edge - which is close to flat but then the edge is rounded over.
Chisel is ground on 1 side


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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:41 pm 
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meridianblades wrote:
Roger there are probably a few youtube vids out there on how to do a convex edge.... I have seen a few using a mousepad and sandpaper, etc. Otherwise like I said the link I posted seemed to work for those that cant seem to hold their angles and wanted something easy.

Did you guys figure out that right handed vs left handed thing.... Check out this vid. See how the high grind is on the backside of the usuba, opposite to where the food is. The knife is made to used by right handed chefs. I would need a box of band-aids to try that.... :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLZUJGyuhQM

Here is an easy to understand pic showing grind types....

Image

Flat is a straight V shape all the way to the spine
Taper is also known as the Scandinavian grind which is flat ground up to a point
Hollow is what you would see on a straight razor
Convex is the strongest edge - which is close to flat but then the edge is rounded over.
Chisel is ground on 1 side


Thanks for the info, I've learned more about knives in this thread then I think I had ever wanted to learn about knives, I do hope I stick to the cheap ones, but if I ever get the itch I might be in trouble as I normally jump in with both feet. I think what I need most is to get some of my shit professionally sharpened, I do maintain them and try to sharpen them, but I am not good at it.

Jim <----Doesn't need another way to spend money.

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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:14 pm 
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JimBo wrote:
meridianblades wrote:
Thanks for the info, I've learned more about knives in this thread then I think I had ever wanted to learn about knives, I do hope I stick to the cheap ones, but if I ever get the itch I might be in trouble as I normally jump in with both feet. I think what I need most is to get some of my shit professionally sharpened, I do maintain them and try to sharpen them, but I am not good at it.

Jim <----Doesn't need another way to spend money.



Yeah probably info overload..... well if you do decide to try something different be careful its easy to start "collecting" these too.


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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:40 pm 
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Larry:
Thanks again. Don't have time right now to view the video. I'll try to do that this weekend. I appreciate your willingness to share. I'll let you know how I make out.

Roger


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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:13 am 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSZRx4eXM60
You can't go wrong with German steel.
Our culinary school gets visited by a knife truck once in a while . Our chefs swear by Wusthof.

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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:25 pm 
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I cook a lot at home and have taken some minor league cooking and knife skill classes. I have mostly Zwilling and Henckle's at home that I use daily. They're fine for average home cooking. Wusthof's would be a step up. I've used Wusthof's in cooking classes and thought they were really good weight and balance. The chef's knife is by far the most versatile. The traditional cutting techniques used with most food prep is mostly designed with a chef's knife in mind. The weight and curvature are ideal for dicing and trimming of most foods.

For really thin cuts on bread and tomatoes, I prefer to use serrated knives. Just a point that the serrated knives I use are not at all hack saw's - the quality ones perform very well.

My chef's knife easily cuts magazine and photocopy paper with little pressure - I don't agree with the "zero noise" concept. I just use a Zwilling ceramic sharpener and a honing steel - takes just a few minutes.

This is a good knife for the money: http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/zwilling-ja-henckels-twin-four-star-ii-chefs-knife-8?ID=218336&CategoryID=31760&LinkType=#fn=KNIFE_TYPE%3DChefs%20Knives%26sp%3D1%26spc%3D20%26ruleId%3D31%26slotId%3D10

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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:51 am 
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TATE wrote:
I cook a lot at home and have taken some minor league cooking and knife skill classes. I have mostly Zwilling and Henckle's at home that I use daily. They're fine for average home cooking. Wusthof's would be a step up. I've used Wusthof's in cooking classes and thought they were really good weight and balance. The chef's knife is by far the most versatile. The traditional cutting techniques used with most food prep is mostly designed with a chef's knife in mind. The weight and curvature are ideal for dicing and trimming of most foods.

For really thin cuts on bread and tomatoes, I prefer to use serrated knives. Just a point that the serrated knives I use are not at all hack saw's - the quality ones perform very well.

My chef's knife easily cuts magazine and photocopy paper with little pressure - I don't agree with the "zero noise" concept. I just use a Zwilling ceramic sharpener and a honing steel - takes just a few minutes.

This is a good knife for the money: http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/zwilling-ja-henckels-twin-four-star-ii-chefs-knife-8?ID=218336&CategoryID=31760&LinkType=#fn=KNIFE_TYPE%3DChefs%20Knives%26sp%3D1%26spc%3D20%26ruleId%3D31%26slotId%3D10



To each his own.... You can shoot with a house cue, or a high end custom that costs 10K on up. Do they shoot the same? Do they look the same? NO.

Same kind of thing with blades. When a single custom blade costs $600 on up, its should look nice and perform very well. The knife will hold an edge longer and not need sharpening as often. These qualities are measurable, (geometry, Rockwell hardness, steel performance testing) and not as subjective as "hit"......I am not a fan of serrations......even on folding blades.

The opinions you read above come from some of the top experts in the world on knives. I posted it just as an FYI as a lot of people have very little knowledge about kitchen knives and the topic comes up frequently. Restaurant kitchens are not where you will find high end cutlery.....Doesn't Martha Stewart have her own line of knives out, and that Lagassee chef as well, or am I thinking of some other TV chefs? :lol: Anyways thanks for posting and some insight on your experience..


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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:20 pm 
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meridianblades wrote:
The opinions you read above come from some of the top experts in the world on knives. I posted it just as an FYI as a lot of people have very little knowledge about kitchen knives and the topic comes up frequently. Restaurant kitchens are not where you will find high end cutlery.....Doesn't Martha Stewart have her own line of knives out, and that Lagassee chef as well, or am I thinking of some other TV chefs? :lol: Anyways thanks for posting and some insight on your experience..


So that's like asking a cue maker how to run a rack.

How to best make a knife, ask a knife maker. How to make best uses of the knives available, ask a chef.

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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:29 pm 
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TATE wrote:
meridianblades wrote:
The opinions you read above come from some of the top experts in the world on knives. I posted it just as an FYI as a lot of people have very little knowledge about kitchen knives and the topic comes up frequently. Restaurant kitchens are not where you will find high end cutlery.....Doesn't Martha Stewart have her own line of knives out, and that Lagassee chef as well, or am I thinking of some other TV chefs? :lol: Anyways thanks for posting and some insight on your experience..


So that's like asking a cue maker how to run a rack.

How to best make a knife, ask a knife maker. How to make best uses of the knives available, ask a chef.

I'll go with this.

I've met a ton of cue makers that don't even pretend to know as much about the game as I do. I'm going to assume the same holds true about knives and cooking.

Freddie <~~~ glad I cook and play

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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:41 pm 
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Cornerman wrote:
TATE wrote:
meridianblades wrote:
The opinions you read above come from some of the top experts in the world on knives. I posted it just as an FYI as a lot of people have very little knowledge about kitchen knives and the topic comes up frequently. Restaurant kitchens are not where you will find high end cutlery.....Doesn't Martha Stewart have her own line of knives out, and that Lagassee chef as well, or am I thinking of some other TV chefs? :lol: Anyways thanks for posting and some insight on your experience..


So that's like asking a cue maker how to run a rack.

How to best make a knife, ask a knife maker. How to make best uses of the knives available, ask a chef.

I'll go with this.

I've met a ton of cue makers that don't even pretend to know as much about the game as I do. I'm going to assume the same holds true about knives and cooking.

Freddie <~~~ glad I cook and play


Thanks for the support Fred. I was going downhill... fast.

It did motivate me to sharpen my knives, however.

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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:30 pm 
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TATE wrote:
meridianblades wrote:
The opinions you read above come from some of the top experts in the world on knives. I posted it just as an FYI as a lot of people have very little knowledge about kitchen knives and the topic comes up frequently. Restaurant kitchens are not where you will find high end cutlery.....Doesn't Martha Stewart have her own line of knives out, and that Lagassee chef as well, or am I thinking of some other TV chefs? :lol: Anyways thanks for posting and some insight on your experience..


So that's like asking a cue maker how to run a rack.

How to best make a knife, ask a knife maker. How to make best uses of the knives available, ask a chef.



So then I should be buying a "Cuetec".... since this big name pro uses it? It really makes no difference in knives that Chef Ramsey or some other chef somewhere endorses XXXX brand.

The differences in knives can be measured.
Steel hardness, carbon versus stainless, wear resistance, grind style and cutting geometry.


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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:50 pm 
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TATE wrote:
I'll go with this.

I've met a ton of cue makers that don't even pretend to know as much about the game as I do. I'm going to assume the same holds true about knives and cooking.

Freddie <~~~ glad I cook and play



Yep because you "Cook" that makes you VERY knowledgeable about kitchen cutlery.... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:10 am 
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meridianblades wrote:
TATE wrote:
I'll go with this.

I've met a ton of cue makers that don't even pretend to know as much about the game as I do. I'm going to assume the same holds true about knives and cooking.

Freddie <~~~ glad I cook and play



Yep because you "Cook" that makes you VERY knowledgeable about kitchen cutlery.... :lol:

I didn't say that.

What I did say however, you'd have no basis to disagree.

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Hrs of Play: Just a few more than zero


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 Post subject: Re: Kitchen Cutlery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:31 pm 
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I think you should read the original post.... there is some info in there that kind of stands out.

Things like.... "There was a Day when the German and French knives were King--It is Gone--they have been De-Throned. A Kershaw Shun in VG-10 will hold an edge far longer than any of the German or French Knives. Any sharpener will work on the Softer German knives and all of the Cheap Ones. No Cheap sharpener will give you the Quality Edge we are talking about above."


What do most of us have in our kitchens? Western / Euro / German blades....

The reason I started the post was to say there is a level above the "home cook" cutlery, if a person wants superior cutting ability, and a blade that stays sharp significantly longer, their are other options out there besides "sets" of knives the avg home cook uses. As single blade could cost more than your entire set of Wusthofs /Henckels...

Of course, there are trade offs too. How well do you take care of your blades "tools"? Do you run them thru the dishwasher? Do you drop them a lot (thin hard edges chip easier). Do you use the right tool for the right task? or are you one of these guys that baton's a knife thru a frozen T Bone? Can you sharpen, or are you willing to take them in to have them sharpened by a pro?


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