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 Post subject: Mentored
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:12 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Mentored
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:13 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Mentored
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:13 pm 
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This case was done as a tribute and assistance to one of my mentors Chas Clements. Chas was one of the worlds best leather crafters, trained in fine arts, who sadly lost the use of his thumbs and then suffered full body frostbite. This left him unable to pursue the craft he had spent decades mastering.

Chas was a mentor of sorts to me. While not an apprentice I did sit with him in his workshop and soak up his philosophy on quality in both construction and design. Basically Chas felt that he should build leather gear that your life could depend on because it just might. I have tried to follow that instruction in our own case making.

When Chas was injured he was left with several cue case customers who had paid deposits and were left without any way to get the cases or even a refund. Chas held out hope for years that he would be healthy enough to get back to the workbench and it didn't happen.

Several years ago I stepped in to offer to take over the orders and try to do a case for any of Chas' customers that would at least be something tangible for their money. Only two of Chas' customers took us up on it. We completed one such case last year and this year it is Joerg's turn. This case has taken a lot longer than it should have but it's all original art. We took Joerg's ideas of a Pegasus combined with Celtic knotwork and ended up with a Pegasus that is flying with the wind with the vines below that then morphs into knotwork, sort of a modern version of Celtic knots, instead of the same ones we are all familiar with.

The art was done by Dino Copreros, the tooling done by Dali Wang and the rest of our staff built the case. We hope that Joerg will like it as well. It's not a Chas but it is the best we can do to emulate and honor my mentor's work in service to his customer.

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 Post subject: Re: Mentored
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:59 am 
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That's a nice case, and your offer was and is very generous.
But your portrayal of the whole deal is very romanticized and hypocritical don't you think?
You seem very fast to call me and others a thief, yet poor poor chas is not???

Deposits are not money that you just get to spend on whatever you see fit, if you are going to take a deposit you ought to have it set aside to use once you complete the case, or at least set aside until you start the case. I get it you want to swing from the guy's nuts and you can see no wrong in him, but once you want to run around lying about people and calling others crooks you ought not point fingers because it may come back to bite you.

You know the ole saying John when you point 1 finger at someone else you have... No that's not it, "people in glass houses shouldn't vacuum naked" yeah that's the one.

Oh and John this is your section and it should be set up for you to moderate as you see fit, feel free to delete my post as I know you and the truth rarely get along.

Jim <----Thinks Karma is a bitch

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 Post subject: Re: Mentored
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:12 pm 
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JimBo wrote:
That's a nice case, and your offer was and is very generous.
But your portrayal of the whole deal is very romanticized and hypocritical don't you think?
You seem very fast to call me and others a thief, yet poor poor chas is not???

Deposits are not money that you just get to spend on whatever you see fit, if you are going to take a deposit you ought to have it set aside to use once you complete the case, or at least set aside until you start the case. I get it you want to swing from the guy's nuts and you can see no wrong in him, but once you want to run around lying about people and calling others crooks you ought not point fingers because it may come back to bite you.

You know the ole saying John when you point 1 finger at someone else you have... No that's not it, "people in glass houses shouldn't vacuum naked" yeah that's the one.

Oh and John this is your section and it should be set up for you to moderate as you see fit, feel free to delete my post as I know you and the truth rarely get along.

Jim <----Thinks Karma is a bitch


No I don't consider a man a thief if he has a debilitating accident that makes him unable to complete jobs he was contracted and paid for.

But hey, thanks for being such a sport and leaving the thread alone to be a showcase for the case. I don't mind leaving your post up as it shows just what a piece of shit you are and always will be. You had the choice to leave it alone and chose to be a troll instead.

And I am not fast to call people thieves. Took me ten years to call you one for the cue you never paid for. I also didn't call Thomas Wayne a thief until after it became known that he stole or hijacked many cues from his customers. As for hypocrites, well there's you.....defending your thief pal Thomas for years....while NEVER once mentioning that Thomas had your cue hostage as well for one of his famous decade repair jobs. Then in beautiful karmic irony Thomas threw your ass under the bus for disagreeing with him and told you that you were never his friend, just another cue sucker.

I just find it amusing that you were practically BEGGING Chas to make you a case.....until Chas said something you didn't agree with.....and you thought you would try and troll him....only Chas eviscerated you verbally and if you had ever taken the opportunity to repeat your trolling bullshit to him in person he would have put you in the ground.

But hey, you're the type of asshole who continues to troll a guy even after he is disabled and can't work anymore. Bravo big boy, you're so internet tough.

I, on the other hand, saw an opportunity to help a friend in some way by taking on some of his debt and that's what I did. One of Chas' other customers wouldn't allow me to make a case. He was so kind that he said he was genuinely sad that Chas lost his livelihood and was ok with just writing off the loss. That customer owns a case from me that he calls his lifetime case along with his original Clements case. That's class and compassion. Two things you are incapable of because being an asshole is more important to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Mentored
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:30 pm 
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John Barton wrote:

No I don't consider a man a thief if he has a debilitating accident that makes him unable to complete jobs he was contracted and paid for.

Well, let me be here to clear it up. He is for sure a thief, you don't get to just spend someone's deposit, and shy of death there really isn't any excuse that cuts it. Hell even in death there should be some measures in place to give the deposits back. He stole from those people and you hanging from his nutz doesn't make it ok. In life a deposit is a legal term and with it comes certain criteria that need to be met.thief, crook,scam, call it what you want, it's not ok.

But hey, thanks for being such a sport and leaving the thread alone to be a showcase for the case. I don't mind leaving your post up as it shows just what a piece of shit you are and always will be. You had the choice to leave it alone and chose to be a troll instead.

My bad, I really don't want to derail and I do think it's a nice case.

And I am not fast to call people thieves. Took me ten years to call you one for the cue you never paid for.

Again this is not only a lie, but it's untrue as well. And you have been making this claim for years


I also didn't call Thomas Wayne a thief until after it became known that he stole or hijacked many cues from his customers.

Stealing and hyjacking are 2 different things, if Roy has the cue back (I have no clue) then it's not stolen so your term thief is not the appropriate term, yet you don't seem to care about the truth or what terms you use to slander people. And as we all know you aren't worried about lying.

As for hypocrites, well there's you.....defending your thief pal Thomas for years....while NEVER once mentioning that Thomas had your cue hostage as well for one of his famous decade repair jobs. Then in beautiful karmic irony Thomas threw your ass under the bus for disagreeing with him and told you that you were never his friend, just another cue sucker.

Where did I defend him?? If he had Roy's cue it wasn't right, it's not my business and I don't have any details on this story. What bus was I thrown under? I am not even sure WTF you are talking about. Karmic irony?? Again WTF are you talking about? I guess I need to consider the source, you are a guy who thinks it's fine for someone to spend a deposit without doing the work the deposit was given for yet keeping a cue for a long time (and giving it back) is stealing. So in my eyes you are a bit off.

I just find it amusing that you were practically BEGGING Chas to make you a case.....until Chas said something you didn't agree with.....and you thought you would try and troll him....only Chas eviscerated you verbally and if you had ever taken the opportunity to repeat your trolling bullshit to him in person he would have put you in the ground.

I saw how good Chas's work was and of course I wanted to work with him, that's what I do. I find people who's work I like and I work with them. Beg?? LOL that is a funny word and of course it's your made up version of actual events. I thought Chas did awesome work and I was going to pay him to work for me, that of course was before I found out that the dude was a complete dooshbag who thought who the fvck he was and had zero clue about cues. Then it was my choice NOT to work with him. I have never had any issues with Money John, I've done ok for myself, I have been fortunate enough to be able to work with the best artisans in the world. By the way I am happy to have never worked with that dooshbag thief, I'm glad he never had a chance to steal my deposit. I spoke out against that creep because he was trashing other case makers work when in fact he had no clue about cues or cue cases. If you remember he was trashing Whitten cases, BTW Whitten cases are pretty good. Of course you were so awe struck by this thief's tooling that you decided you were going to join his fan club and just follow along like a star struck puppy dog.
If calling this clueless leather worker out is trolling then I guess I am guilty as charged. But I'll own that when you own the fact that you were a star struck little fan boy. Of course now you can tell us all how you and Dan were buddies and spoke often about cases and case construction and how he loved you (LOL Fvckin joke)


But hey, you're the type of asshole who continues to troll a guy even after he is disabled and can't work anymore. Bravo big boy, you're so internet tough.

No internet tough guy, I'm not trolling the guy, just pointing out the truth and calling a spade a spade, he is a thief bottom line, there isn't one sane person who would argue that fact.

I, on the other hand, saw an opportunity to help a friend in some way by taking on some of his debt and that's what I did. One of Chas' other customers wouldn't allow me to make a case. He was so kind that he said he was genuinely sad that Chas lost his livelihood and was ok with just writing off the loss. That customer owns a case from me that he calls his lifetime case along with his original Clements case. That's class and compassion. Two things you are incapable of because being an asshole is more important to you.


You are a true saint John, I am sure there is a special place for you

Jim <---Glad Chas never ran into me LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Mentored
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:52 pm 
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"..... The art was done by Dino Copreros, the tooling done by Dali Wang and the rest of our staff built the case. ...."

And you are just the brains?

Scott

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 Post subject: Re: Mentored
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:55 pm 
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ScottR wrote:
"..... The art was done by Dino Copreros, the tooling done by Dali Wang and the rest of our staff built the case. ...."

And you are just the brains?

Scott


That's right. I was the one who put all the pieces together. Built the shop, trained the staff, hired the tooler, hired the artist, directed the work. That's me, the brain, can't you tell?

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 Post subject: Re: Mentored
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:15 pm 
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JimBo wrote:
John Barton wrote:

No I don't consider a man a thief if he has a debilitating accident that makes him unable to complete jobs he was contracted and paid for.

Well, let me be here to clear it up. He is for sure a thief, you don't get to just spend someone's deposit, and shy of death there really isn't any excuse that cuts it. Hell even in death there should be some measures in place to give the deposits back. He stole from those people and you hanging from his nutz doesn't make it ok. In life a deposit is a legal term and with it comes certain criteria that need to be met.thief, crook,scam, call it what you want, it's not ok.

But hey, thanks for being such a sport and leaving the thread alone to be a showcase for the case. I don't mind leaving your post up as it shows just what a piece of shit you are and always will be. You had the choice to leave it alone and chose to be a troll instead.

My bad, I really don't want to derail and I do think it's a nice case.

And I am not fast to call people thieves. Took me ten years to call you one for the cue you never paid for.

Again this is not only a lie, but it's untrue as well. And you have been making this claim for years


I also didn't call Thomas Wayne a thief until after it became known that he stole or hijacked many cues from his customers.

Stealing and hyjacking are 2 different things, if Roy has the cue back (I have no clue) then it's not stolen so your term thief is not the appropriate term, yet you don't seem to care about the truth or what terms you use to slander people. And as we all know you aren't worried about lying.

As for hypocrites, well there's you.....defending your thief pal Thomas for years....while NEVER once mentioning that Thomas had your cue hostage as well for one of his famous decade repair jobs. Then in beautiful karmic irony Thomas threw your ass under the bus for disagreeing with him and told you that you were never his friend, just another cue sucker.

Where did I defend him?? If he had Roy's cue it wasn't right, it's not my business and I don't have any details on this story. What bus was I thrown under? I am not even sure WTF you are talking about. Karmic irony?? Again WTF are you talking about? I guess I need to consider the source, you are a guy who thinks it's fine for someone to spend a deposit without doing the work the deposit was given for yet keeping a cue for a long time (and giving it back) is stealing. So in my eyes you are a bit off.

I just find it amusing that you were practically BEGGING Chas to make you a case.....until Chas said something you didn't agree with.....and you thought you would try and troll him....only Chas eviscerated you verbally and if you had ever taken the opportunity to repeat your trolling bullshit to him in person he would have put you in the ground.

I saw how good Chas's work was and of course I wanted to work with him, that's what I do. I find people who's work I like and I work with them. Beg?? LOL that is a funny word and of course it's your made up version of actual events. I thought Chas did awesome work and I was going to pay him to work for me, that of course was before I found out that the dude was a complete dooshbag who thought who the fvck he was and had zero clue about cues. Then it was my choice NOT to work with him. I have never had any issues with Money John, I've done ok for myself, I have been fortunate enough to be able to work with the best artisans in the world. By the way I am happy to have never worked with that dooshbag thief, I'm glad he never had a chance to steal my deposit. I spoke out against that creep because he was trashing other case makers work when in fact he had no clue about cues or cue cases. If you remember he was trashing Whitten cases, BTW Whitten cases are pretty good. Of course you were so awe struck by this thief's tooling that you decided you were going to join his fan club and just follow along like a star struck puppy dog.
If calling this clueless leather worker out is trolling then I guess I am guilty as charged. But I'll own that when you own the fact that you were a star struck little fan boy. Of course now you can tell us all how you and Dan were buddies and spoke often about cases and case construction and how he loved you (LOL Fvckin joke)


But hey, you're the type of asshole who continues to troll a guy even after he is disabled and can't work anymore. Bravo big boy, you're so internet tough.

No internet tough guy, I'm not trolling the guy, just pointing out the truth and calling a spade a spade, he is a thief bottom line, there isn't one sane person who would argue that fact.

I, on the other hand, saw an opportunity to help a friend in some way by taking on some of his debt and that's what I did. One of Chas' other customers wouldn't allow me to make a case. He was so kind that he said he was genuinely sad that Chas lost his livelihood and was ok with just writing off the loss. That customer owns a case from me that he calls his lifetime case along with his original Clements case. That's class and compassion. Two things you are incapable of because being an asshole is more important to you.


You are a true saint John, I am sure there is a special place for you

Jim <---Glad Chas never ran into me LOL


Yes Jim you're such a moral absolutist right. The guy who openly says you give your friends a pass when they do something wrong.

And as for Thomas Wayne keeping cues for years and ONLY giving them back when forced or shamed into it.......please save your nonsense.....a person who takes merchandise and avoids all responsibility for returning it, who cuts off communication and actually hides from the property owners is by that behaviour properly classified as a thief. That he eventually makes restitution does not absolve him of being a thief.

In fact, as far as I know Thomas Wayne STILL owes several collectors for cue repairs due to his shoddy construction. One of them owns only the butt as Thomas has refused to repair or return the original shafts.

For Chas Clements.....as far as I know he did try to make some restitution by offering his customers his knife collection. A collection earned through many years of making sheaths for high end knife makers. Some took him up on that offer and others did not. I offered to buy Chas' tools and he declined because he hoped to be healthy enough to return to the work.

Anyway it doesn't matter. You have your hypocritical views and then there is the reality. The reality is that the customers who chose to accept my offer have now received some compensation where there was pretty much no hope of getting any and I feel good that I could help someone I respect and for whom I am sad that he lost the career he built over many decades.

As for your other blather, yes Dan Whitten and I were also friends and we have talked case making. The funny part is that while you were so quick to leap unbidden to Dan's defense (Dan didn't even read or participate on RSB) he readily admitted that the things Chas spoke of were true characteristics of his style of case making and that he had to make engineering choices to strengthen the case while maintaining the look. As a result the Whitten cases of the 2000s are much stronger than the ones of the 90s.

Which is to say that the real moral of the story is you should keel your ignorant mouth shut before sticking both feet in them. Sometimes it's better to shut up and listen and learn about a subject instead of injecting your ignorant vitriol. But we understand Jimbo, a cuemaker brown-noser has to put in his time to keep the deals flowing right? Think Thomas will let you buy another cue on layaway?

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 Post subject: Re: Mentored
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:21 pm 
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John Barton wrote:
ScottR wrote:
"..... The art was done by Dino Copreros, the tooling done by Dali Wang and the rest of our staff built the case. ...."

And you are just the brains?

Scott


That's right. I was the one who put all the pieces together. Built the shop, trained the staff, hired the tooler, hired the artist, directed the work. That's me, the brain, can't you tell?



Not to bring up another bad topic, but how come you always attack the Volturri guy for doing the same exact shit you do.

Jim <---Confused

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 Post subject: Re: Mentored
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:13 am 
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JimBo wrote:
John Barton wrote:
ScottR wrote:
"..... The art was done by Dino Copreros, the tooling done by Dali Wang and the rest of our staff built the case. ...."

And you are just the brains?

Scott


That's right. I was the one who put all the pieces together. Built the shop, trained the staff, hired the tooler, hired the artist, directed the work. That's me, the brain, can't you tell?



Not to bring up another bad topic, but how come you always attack the Volturri guy for doing the same exact shit you do.

Jim <---Confused


I don't. I have never attacked him for having a shop. I have attacked him for lying about having a shop. He claims that he does all or most of the work on the cases. Never gives credit to his employees and never puts their names out there.

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 Post subject: Re: Mentored
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:57 am 
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Are you going to post up some other nice cases??

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 Post subject: Re: Mentored
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:18 pm 
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Of course I am. And I fully expect you or someone to make snide remarks now that you opened the door for that to be acceptable.

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 Post subject: Re: Mentored
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:58 pm 
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John Barton wrote:
Of course I am. And I fully expect you or someone to make snide remarks now that you opened the door for that to be acceptable.



Gee how can we fix that?

Should we make some rules? Should we say please only kind comments?

Jim <---Willing to work with you buddy

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 Post subject: Re: Mentored
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:00 pm 
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JimBo wrote:
John Barton wrote:
Of course I am. And I fully expect you or someone to make snide remarks now that you opened the door for that to be acceptable.



Gee how can we fix that?

Should we make some rules? Should we say please only kind comments?

Jim <---Willing to work with you buddy


Nah it's all good...you lead by example.

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