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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:25 pm 
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There may be a bfly week coming. ask Murray before you post.
Just a thought.

John

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:39 pm 
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I do not have one planned. Feel free to jump in whenever. I'm trying to come up with the next couple of weeks worth of topics and post them ahead of time but I have not got that far yet.

rocketq wrote:
There may be a bfly week coming. ask Murray before you post.
Just a thought.

John

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:57 pm 
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rocketq wrote:
There may be a bfly week coming. ask Murray before you post.
Just a thought.

John


Was never really a huge fan of butterfly cues...save one or two that I've seen pop up recently. I did have a Scott Whisler b-fly cue that I thought was pretty sharp...but for the most part, I've stayed away from 'em.

BHQ has kicked out one or two that I thought were just awesome. Have seen one or two Billy Webb b-fly cues that were sharp. Paul Fenelli comes to mind, of course, as putting together a nice one.

Are butterfly cues...effectively...like recuts? Is it one oval inlayed into the one behind it, and so on and so forth?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:08 pm 
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8-ball Rat wrote:
rocketq wrote:
There may be a bfly week coming. ask Murray

Are butterfly cues...effectively...like recuts? Is it one oval inlayed into the one behind it, and so on and so forth?

i dont do them that way, but they could be
i'll find a link to another thread that showed some in the works so we can leave this thread for it's original intent.
there's a bunch of pics of various stages here
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=186670
you'll notice i glued all of the veneers and the outer piece at the same time
we'll get into all that later when murray or brugge or whoever starts a Bfly thread

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:19 pm 
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8-ball Rat wrote:
rocketq wrote:
There may be a bfly week coming. ask Murray before you post.
Just a thought.

John


Was never really a huge fan of butterfly cues...save one or two that I've seen pop up recently. I did have a Scott Whisler b-fly cue that I thought was pretty sharp...but for the most part, I've stayed away from 'em.

BHQ has kicked out one or two that I thought were just awesome. Have seen one or two Billy Webb b-fly cues that were sharp. Paul Fenelli comes to mind, of course, as putting together a nice one.

Are butterfly cues...effectively...like recuts? Is it one oval inlayed into the one behind it, and so on and so forth?


Butterflies are really no different than V spliced points. You have a flat bottom rather a V bottom. Just like with V bottom points.....the look of the finished product depends on the depth and angle of the cut. Depending on the design one is attempting to achieve, they can be done where all the veneers and butter point are glued in at the same time or you may have to glue each veneer in separate of each other. The latter being more tediously involved which can equate to more bad words being said than when all are glued together as a group.

Edit..........Ok, once again Chris has made me do things that I've been putting off so I started messing with this picture thing on my computer and lo and behold all of my photowise pictures are on this computer, I just can't load the software to use that as my picture editing and storing place but all my old pictures are here.
Image
Here's a shot of some early forearms I did maybe 9-10 years ago. They show the difference between the two styles I was talking about.
The 3rd from the left is the style where you can make one cut per side and glue all the veneers and point wood in at the same time. Actually I do them where I can cut 2 sides and glue, then rotate 90 degrees and add the other 2 sides. So total you can do the butterflies design part in 2 separate glue up sessions.
The 2nd from the left is a more difficult design to achieve. Notice that each layer of veneers come to a sharp point pointing toward the A joint. In order to execute this design you have to complete each of the 4 sides of each layer before going to the next color of veneer. Total glue ups in this design for just the butterflies is going to be 8, 2 sessions for each separate color.

This is OT a bit but looking at these pictures have also reminded me of why I started cutting and making my own veneers for all of my cues. These are all natural colored veneers per species if wood except if you look at the 3rd cue you'll notice the outer black veneer looks like a pile of dog poo. That's because it's was a manufactured and color dyed black veneer from someone other than myself. All the other black veneers I cut from ebony and are not color dyed.
You can see the difference in how sharp the outline of the veneer is by using a hardwood instead of a softer aftermarket veneer. Also by doing this I have total control over the thickness of the veneers. If I want to use .035 thick or .025 thick or anything over,under and in between, I can. Any color dyed veneers I've been using for the last 4-5 years I cut them myself from hard maple and dye them.
As I mentioned, butters are not much different than V's, just using a different type cutter to achieve a different type design.
Of course, my favorite designs are using both type cutters in the same cue.

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Last edited by BarenbruggeCues on Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:36 pm 
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I gotta get me a lathe. Seems to be that the best way to see this stuff in action is to strap something up and play with it.

I have no misconception that my time as a cuemaker is coming...but I'd LOVE to build one...just one. Could be the ugliest thing to ever strike a ball...but being able to say I put one together would, basically, be the end-all, be-all of my pool universe.

Thanks, gentlemen, for the ongoing insights. Looking forward to the next chapter, for sure.

Mark <---wants to build a stick

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:17 pm 
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Quote:
strap something up and play with it.


That's what she said :!:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:20 pm 
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BarenbruggeCues wrote:
8-ball Rat wrote:
rocketq wrote:
There may be a bfly week coming. ask Murray before you post.
Just a thought.

John


Was never really a huge fan of butterfly cues...save one or two that I've seen pop up recently. I did have a Scott Whisler b-fly cue that I thought was pretty sharp...but for the most part, I've stayed away from 'em.

BHQ has kicked out one or two that I thought were just awesome. Have seen one or two Billy Webb b-fly cues that were sharp. Paul Fenelli comes to mind, of course, as putting together a nice one.

Are butterfly cues...effectively...like recuts? Is it one oval inlayed into the one behind it, and so on and so forth?


Butterflies are really no different than V spliced points. You have a flat bottom rather a V bottom. Just like with V bottom points.....the look of the finished product depends on the depth and angle of the cut. Depending on the design one is attempting to achieve, they can be done where all the veneers and butter point are glued in at the same time or you may have to glue each veneer in separate of each other. The latter being more tediously involved which can equate to more bad words being said than when all are glued together as a group.

Edit..........Ok, once again Chris has made me do things that I've been putting off so I started messing with this picture thing on my computer and lo and behold all of my photowise pictures are on this computer, I just can't load the software to use that as my picture editing and storing place but all my old pictures are here.
Image
Here's a shot of some early forearms I did maybe 9-10 years ago. They show the difference between the two styles I was talking about.
The 3rd from the left is the style where you can make one cut per side and glue all the veneers and point wood in at the same time. Actually I do them where I can cut 2 sides and glue, then rotate 90 degrees and add the other 2 sides. So total you can do the butterflies design part in 2 separate glue up sessions.
The 2nd from the left is a more difficult design to achieve. Notice that each layer of veneers come to a sharp point pointing toward the A joint. In order to execute this design you have to complete each of the 4 sides of each layer before going to the next color of veneer. Total glue ups in this design for just the butterflies is going to be 8, 2 sessions for each separate color.

This is OT a bit but looking at these pictures have also reminded me of why I started cutting and making my own veneers for all of my cues. These are all natural colored veneers per species if wood except if you look at the 3rd cue you'll notice the outer black veneer looks like a pile of dog poo. That's because it's was a manufactured and color dyed black veneer from someone other than myself. All the other black veneers I cut from ebony and are not color dyed.
You can see the difference in how sharp the outline of the veneer is by using a hardwood instead of a softer aftermarket veneer. Also by doing this I have total control over the thickness of the veneers. If I want to use .035 thick or .025 thick or anything over,under and in between, I can. Any color dyed veneers I've been using for the last 4-5 years I cut them myself from hard maple and dye them.
As I mentioned, butters are not much different than V's, just using a different type cutter to achieve a different type design.
Of course, my favorite designs are using both type cutters in the same cue.

your pictures too fkn big :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:51 pm 
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Quote:
your pictures too fkn big :lol:


Then don't look at them :shock:
:arrow: Just because I was able to find them on my computer doesn't mean I know how to edit them yet :!:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:55 pm 
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BarenbruggeCues wrote:
Quote:
your pictures too fkn big :lol:


Then don't look at them :shock:
:arrow: Just because I was able to find them on my computer doesn't mean I know how to edit them yet :!:

i know buckwheat,
i been having a helluva time with my new camera editing pics too :roll:
we both need 6 year olds to figure it out for us :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:07 pm 
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8-ball Rat wrote:
I gotta get me a lathe. Seems to be that the best way to see this stuff in action is to strap something up and play with it.

I have no misconception that my time as a cuemaker is coming...but I'd LOVE to build one...just one. Could be the ugliest thing to ever strike a ball...but being able to say I put one together would, basically, be the end-all, be-all of my pool universe.

Thanks, gentlemen, for the ongoing insights. Looking forward to the next chapter, for sure.

Mark <---wants to build a stick



You can't build just one! It's an addiction worse than any drug. My kids don't even treat me the same anymore. My son after he cought me measuring a wrap groove and compairing it to his pet lizard. My daughter, when she put 2 and 2 together and figured out that every time one of her hamsters "got lost". I had a new batch of layerd tips to try. Don't even want to talk about asking my wife to get a job, to start my "river of wood". Doctor said I should have no permenent brain damage after that one!

I hope to be cutting my first point grooves in the next few week, If people would just quit calling me to come do my day job! Just joking about my day job. Without it I could never afford this hobby!!!!

Thanks Murry. It's good to have something to look forward too, other than Mondays and Tuesdays!!!!!

Larry


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:27 am 
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Great idea, great threads, but it's time to stop giving them away free Murray.

Jim <---Wet the whistle and striaght to members only I say

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:02 am 
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Probably time. The full splice segment is next and I will have a special guest joining me in the booth.

JimBo wrote:
Great idea, great threads, but it's time to stop giving them away free Murray.

Jim <---Wet the whistle and striaght to members only I say

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:04 am 
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awesome anatomy of a cue series guys. really informative.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:59 am 
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Thanks to those who helped out with pictures while I was on walkabout. Here are some steps to building a short spiced forearm.

First we put out forearm wood into a fixture that will allow us to index it to cut the desired number of points.

Image

Then we cut "V's" into the forearm.

Image

My mill had a DRO (digital read out) which makes repeating steps easy.

Image

Once all the V's are cut we can glue in our point stock.

Image

And here is the finished product ready to be joined to the handle.

Image

Image

If you are taking notes then write this down: In a short spiced blank EACH POINT IS A SEPARATE PIECE OF WOOD. Look at the end view and study it. 4 points, 4 INDIVIDUAL pieces.

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